First, just in case, my email address .

Why a web page instead of a printed book or such?

First, I am not looking to make money from anything to do with Karen Carpenter (hence no adds or donate buttons or such on the web pages).  My intentions are only to provide information, not to be wealthy or popular or such.  Second, a web page can be translated into other languages whereas a book can only be read in the language that it is written in.  A web page can also be edited whereas a book is confined to the state in which it was / is published.  A book also needs to be sold whereas a web page does not need to be sold and a web page is very inexpensive to make and maintain.

Why is this page being written?

Good question.  This page has been written because there have been a lot of questions asked by people.  There have also been a lot of disagreements between people as well.  Also, after someone passes away, there is usually a period of shock that sets in and after that, memories may not be what they seemed they were before.  And after the person passes away, they are not around to ask if what someone remembers is actually the actual memory or what a person thinks or believes might have happened.  This page here consists of objective observations.  Objective observations are what actually happened.  The other type, subjective observations, are all speculative and subject to opinion and such.  There is a link later to a subjective discussion as well (rantnrave.html).  Another difficult part was that until within the last couple years, the full autopsy report with the toxicology report as well as the Emetine lab test results  were not available publicly.  There was the standard autopsy report (17 pages), however, there were other pages missing (25 pages total, not 17, so 8 lab result pages missing).  Hopefully, this page answers questions and provides inside information that some forgot about, was missing or someone was trying to "pull the wool over people's eyes" and left it out intentionally.  A concrete example is the mentioning of the fact that Karen weighed 78 pounds when she was admitted into Levenkron's clinic in January 1982 and then they go on to explain how great Levenkron was and all these praises to Levenkron while trying to blame Karen's mother and brother for Karen's anorexia problem as Karen's family is not even there with Karen at the clinic but are still apparently controlling Karen through telepathy or whatever.  But why didn't they mention the fact that when Karen entered Lennox Hill Hospital in September 1982 that Karen weighed 77 pounds (82 pounds on the scales and 5 pounds of clothing officially).  All of a sudden those praises towards Levenkron and those digs aimed at Karen's family seem to have a sinister motive behind them as Karen's weight when she entered Lennox Hill was available but left out of the 'story'.  And how the grand, great and glorious Phil Ramone who has won one Grammy Award
(actually he won four at the time but the writers only say that Phil won a Grammy in these stories) is going to save the careers of Richard and Karen Carpenter who have won three Grammy Awards.  I kid you not that some people are gullible enough to believe that kind of stuff after the writer forgets to mention the fact that Richard and Karen won three Grammys.  And the biggest problem out there are a very small group of individuals that try to bully everyone else to accept their ideas that fall apart when facts are mentioned.  As people have been finding out, I have no use for bullies and I am not one to avoid being confrontational with bullies either.  Presenting information and asking about things is fine but telling others what they can and can not say or think is reprehensible.  Honest, it is OK to disagree as probably 80% of this page came from disagreements between people.  Disagree with a bully however and people get hassled, harassed, gaslighted, ostracized, threatened and all that other wonderful stuff that bullies do to others that disagree with them and their minions.  And now, the moment we've all been waiting for... (Oops, I think the curtain's stuck again.  Ah, there we are).

About Karen passing away...

And about the autopsy report. What a mess that is. (A) EMETINE CARDIOTOXICITY DUE TO AS AS A CONSEQUENCE OF (B) ANOREXIA NERVOSA Anatomical Summary: I. Pulmonary edema and congestion II. Anorexia Nervosa (clinical). III. Cachexia. IV. Distended abdomen. V. Dehydration. VI. Congestion of liver and spleen. VII. Hyperplasia of porta lymph nodes. VIII. Distention of bowel. A break down is that later Karen's heart is listed as being normal. Karen has fluid in her lungs (I), Karen weighs 108 pounds which is considered average for a 5'4" female which kind of negates the Anorexia Nervosa (II), Cachexia is a medical term for low birth weight or a preemie but no aneurysm found - Karen weighed 5 pounds at birth and was born premature (III), Distended abdomen (stomach is sticking out, colitis?) (IV), Dehydration (side affect of diabetes/hyperglycemia, shhh) (V), Congestion of liver and spleen (side affect of dehydration and also possibly hepatitis too) (VI), Hyperplasia of portal lymph nodes (slight swelling of lymph node under jaw, left side, note, not the thyroid, note also, definitely from hepatitis) (VII), Distension of bowel which explains distended abdomen in IV, colitis? (VIII). Karen had a shrimp salad the night before and the green (leafy?) residue left over in Karen's bowels was from the digestion of the shrimp (shell fish.  Shrimp skin, the shells, are orangish when cooked but turn green after being digested in stomach acid).  In the toxicology report later it lists Karen's blood sugar level as being over 1100 (a person's average blood sugar level is around 100 so 11 times higher than average yet hyperglycemia [high blood sugar level] is missed by the coroner as the coroner had prepared the autopsy report before the toxicology report came back.  As Karen was a celebrity, there was a lot of pressure by the press to release an autopsy report quickly and unfortunately, the coroner caved in to that pressure.  The highest level ever recorded was 1454 by someone that had been put to death by lethal injection, a level of 1100 is fatal). Most people pass out at a blood sugar level around 800 to 900. A person put to death by 'lethal injection' usually has a blood sugar level between 1300 and 1450. Yes, 100%, a blood sugar level above 1100 will cause a person's heart to stop beating. The Emetine level was .46 mL which is roughly the equivalent of a small drop (if that as .46 ml = 46/100,000th of a liter, so small drop) and as it has never been studied as to how long emetine may stay in a person, no idea how long this small drop of emetine may have been in Karen's system but the drop is listed as 'residua (leftover)' opposed to 'active' or 'recent'. Another note is that the amount, .46 mL, is less than a normal dose, so fatal?  Does that mean that everyone that has ever taken a dose of emetine (ipecac) has died?  It does if you take this autopsy literally.  About a half milliliter of emetine has never been known to be fatal for anyone except apparently in Karen's autopsy report.  Big red flag here.  The emetine was in Karen's liver and not in her blood stream, so not recent at least a week prior, (last known time of Karen using ipecac, September 1982, but Karen had said she had backslid, just not sure when other than at least a week prior but most likely longer than that.  Yes, Karen had told me that she had abused ipecac while at Levenkron's clinic from January to September 1982.  I am not positive on this, but fairly sure that Karen had said that the last time she touched that stuff was just before the Grammy Awards in January 1983 which I believe was only one of a couple times that Karen had backslid since November 1982). Cardiotoxicity of a normal heart? That would actually be a blood sugar level over 1100 which would cause the heart to stop beating but that would be a toxicity to the nerves that tell the heart to beat and not actually toxic to the heart itself. Karen's heart and aorta are later listed as being normal. Oops. And also (for a little levity here), Karen also had athlete's foot (tinea pedis) which she figured she had picked up from taking showers after gym class when she was in school in Connecticut which was why Karen opted to take marching band instead of gym class when Karen started going to high school in Downey California. But unfortunately Karen was not able to tell the coroner this so that the coroner could add that information to the autopsy report. And Karen had one cavity that was filled too (As Karen later said, “All natural. Just little old me. The way God intended me to be plus that one filled cavity because I didn’t brush my teeth good enough after eating DOTS candy at a movie theater”). And to add here, Karen was found on her brother’s floor near his walk-in closet. Karen usually weighed herself in the nude on Friday mornings and I am fairly sure that the weight scales had been hidden in Richard’s room on that Friday. Someone grabbed a red jump suit (most likely out of Richard’s closet). Inside this jump suit (that probably had not been worn since most likely the late 1970’s) was found a bottle of I believe Ativan (Lorazepam).  Ativan is a muscle and nerve relaxant used for people who have 'the shakes' or in Richard's case back in 1979, the DTs or Delirium Tremens, muscle spasms, seizures, epilepsy and/or twitching.  When Richard was admitted into the clinic in Topeka Kansas on January 10 1979, he was given a prescription (which probably expired on January 10, 1983, look at the date on that sheet, hint, hint.  Richard was admitted into rehab on January 10, 1979 and given a presciption for Ativan for his DT symptoms) for Ativan to help with the Quaalude withdrawal symptoms.  (Note to quacks here - Ativan is supposed to be prescribed for fidgeting, nervousness and anxiety, not depression.  At the time, Valium was considered the wonder drug for depression.  Karen was well-known for being fidgety which was why she took so well to the drums to keep her hands busy, but that date of 1/10/83 is a very telltale sign here.  That was exactly 4 years after the day that Richard was admitted into the Topeka Kansas Clinic and given Ativan to help with the DTs aka "the shakes").  Who was taking pills for sleep problems? What room was Karen found in? Karen usually wore pastel colors, so red jump suit? How long had that jump suit been sitting in Richard’s walk-in closet before one of the paramedics, that noticed Karen in the nude, grabbed the jump suit so that Karen might have something to wear after recovery (which Karen didn’t recover but it is the thought here that counts).  Lymph node, not thyroid. And a bigger note too. Karen had told me that she had her tattoo of a rose removed (the needle marks near the groin area as that was where the tattoo had been located) I believe around mid January 1983 and during the process, Karen had contracted jaundice (hepatitis). The lump in her lymph node was because of her tattoo being removed and a ‘dirty’ needle. I believe it also says that Karen’s thyroid (around the voice box) had been damaged too. They had put Karen on a life support machine and as stated in the autopsy report, the breathing tube from that machine had been left behind. The damage to her thyroid was physical and from the breathing tube of the life support machine. Karen had also had a shrimp salad and two tacos the night before. Myself and several physicians, nurses, coroners and other health care people have fine tooth combed Karen's autopsy as stuff didn't sound right (and it isn't). Most likely something with the procedure at Lennox Hill Hospital, but that was about 3 and a half months before but about the only thing that might have caused the imbalance in Karen's glucol level. The end result, something just went haywire internally with Karen's blood sugar level. Karen had also had arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) and so I was thinking 'stroke' (Karen had a mini stroke in 1977) but it does seem to be Karen's high sugar level was the cause of Karen's heart stopping. Karen was also expecting her 'visitor' (menstruation) shortly but it hadn't started yet. But noted in "Genitrourinary Tract" section, "The right ovary is unremarkable. The left ovary contains a corpus luteum showing recent hemorrhage".  I had talked with Karen for about a half hour on February 3, 1983 and she was always a little tired with her visitor so there weren't any telltale signs or such as Karen was laughing and such over the phone, just a little tired was all (no chest pains or such but after a shrimp salad and tacos - beef and fish - I was surprised Karen didn't have gas at some point later on.  I talked with Karen before she went out to dinner). Karen kept track of the days for her visitor and it was due between February 3 and 5. Karen's death does not appear to be anyone's fault as it was just something internal that suddenly went haywire. Also, despite rumors, there was not any ipecac nor prescription pills or such found after Karen passed away.  Had there actually been anything found hidden in Karen's condo or her room or such, it would have been immediately turned over to be analyzed at a lab to see if it might have been a placebo (sugar pill) or such.  Nothing was analyzed as nothing unusual was found (except in Richard's red jogging suit).  About the only thing that has been hidden with that is the identity of those spreading the rumors about prescription pills and ipecac being found.  Also, there was not anything physical found to support Karen having a heart attack or such.  There was not any swelling nor any blockages noted around Karen's heart or aorta.  Also, no bad valves or such noted either.  Karen's heart and aorta were also seen as slightly small but normal.  No mention of angina or such either.  As the autopsy states about Karen's heart and aorta - "The heart weighs 170 grams and is small but of normal shape and configuration. The epicardial surface is smooth. The myocardium is red-brown and firm and shows no focal ulcerations. The endocardial surface and valves are grossly normal. The coronary arteries reveal no arteriosclerosis and no congenital abnormalies. The aorta reveals minimal intimal thickening and plaque formation. The pulmonary arteries and great veins are grossly normal."  With the massive amount of glucol in Karen's system, Karen's heart just painlessly stopped beating.  Karen did have a punctured lung from the procedure at Lennox Hill but nothing indicating any heart problems besides the very high glucol level (which might cause dizziness, dehydration, disorientation and a possible slight headache).  In short, cardiac arrest with absolutely no signs of a heart attack.  Karen had also stayed steady at around 108 pounds for her last 3 and a half months, so the anorexia was in remission so to speak and it seems like if it was the Lennox Hill procedure that something would have shown up sooner than 3 and a half months. But then too, they punctured her lung (the fluid) so maybe it just suddenly leaked out? But only speculation, not definite there. Karen and her mom had come up with an idea where Karen only weighed herself once a week (Friday mornings) which appeared to be working for the anorexia.  Karen passed away on a Friday morning weighing 108 pounds which is a normal weight and Karen had been steady at the weight since November 1982 until she passed away.

So did Karen actually have colitis or was it just a cover up for the anorexia?  The answer according to Karen's autopsy report is that yes, Karen did actually have colitis and it wasn't a cover up.  To quote the autopsy on this, "Gastrointestinal Tract: The esophagus is dilated and contains gastric content to the level of midesophagus. The upper portions of the esophagus are grossly normal. The stomach contains an estimated 50 to 60 cc. of a dark green, dry and hydrous material which has the consistency of dried tea leaves. No solid material or identifiable food is seen. No pills, capsules or other forms of medications are identifiable. The mucosa is rugose and intact and reveals no ulcerations or other abnormalities. The duodenum is dilated and full of a soft semiliquid yellowish-green material. The mucosa is intact. The small bowel is also distended and full of a yellowish-green semisolid dehydrated material. The appendix is grossly normal. The colon is also distended and dilated with a greenish-brown dehydrated material to the level of the terminal sigmoid. The rectum is empty and shows no abnormalities."  And also from the "External Description" heading, "The abdomen is distended."  But yes, Karen's duodenum, small bowel and colon are swollen revealing, you got it, colitis.  And also as noted, as far as Karen taking any pills or such before she passed away, as the autopsy reveals here, no.  And for those wondering, I know that several times Karen had plugged the toilet after going to the bathroom.  Karen was having difficulty going to the bathroom and that did contribute to Karen not wanting to eat solid food as much.  With the colitis, Karen was normally very bound up inside and when she did go to the bathroom to take a dump, the dumps were normally very large and would plug up the toilet most times.  After Karen would go to the bathroom, usually Karen would grab a plunger or let the janitor know that the toilet was plugged and the janitor would grab a plunger.  I had kind of the same problem so it was kind of a joke between Karen and me of our being "big sh*ts" and having the janitor grab the plunger whenever Karen or me went into the bathroom.  My problem was from drinking too much milk though, while Karen's problem was from her colitis and her intestines being enlarged and swollen.  But yes, Karen's colitis did contribute to Karen not wanting to eat solid food.  And not wanting to eat is something known as anorexia.

And as noted in the Liver section of the autopsy, "The porta hepatic lymph nodes are enlarged to about the size of a pea." - so yes, Karen had hepatitis.  And as recorded in the "External Description" heading, "Multiple needle puncture marks are seen in the groin bilaterally." which were from Karen having her tattoo removed around mid to late January 1983 and Karen having contracted hepatitis from a 'dirty needle' at the tattoo parlor.

And to finish this here, from the autopsy...

"Signed by: Ronald N. Kornblum, M.D. Acting Chief Medical Examiner-Coroner.
February 28, 1983.

Medical Report
Autopsy On:
Date 2/4/83
Time 2:30pm
Dr. Kornblum
Final on 3/11/83
Death was caused by:
Immediate cause:
Emetine Cardiotoxicity
Due to:
Anorexia Nervosa.
Other conditions contributing but not relating to the immediate cause of death:
Natural cause.
Hospital Report
Case # 83-1611.
Date February 4, 1983.
Deceased: Karen Anne Carpenter.
Age: 32.
Sex: Female
Race: Caucasian
Karen Anne Carpenter was pronounced dead on the 4th day of February 1983 at 0951am by I. Edwards, M.D. at Downey Community Hospital.
Hospital #: ED#7139520
Admitted: 4th day of February 1983 at 0923am by ambulance. From home- 9828 Newville Avenue Downey.
Admitted by G Monnet, M.D.
Symptoms Cardiac arrest.
Laboratory Data: 1,110 Blood Glucose Level.
Remarks: Anorexia Nervosa / Depression.
In my opinion the immediate cause of death is: Hyperosmolar Coma.
Case Report:
Pam Tomlin RN, Downey Community Hospital.


The decedent is a 32 year old female with a reported history of "Anorexia Nervosa."

The decedent was last known to be alive this morning when her mother heard her activity in the kitchen of their residence. The decedent's mother entered the kitchen at approximately 0850 Hrs 2-4-83 and found the decedent unresponsive on the floor. Paramedics were summoned responded and initiated CPR while transporting the decedent to the hospital. The decedent was admitted to the Emergency Room of Downey Community Hospital where life saving efforts proved to be of no avail. Death was pronounced at 0951 Hrs, 2-4-83 by Dr. Edwards. This investigator viewed the decedent at Downey Community Hospital. Close examination revealed no indications of trauma or foul play. Ms. Tomlin relinquished a vial of "Ativan" 2mg tablets which she stated was found in the decedents clothing. The medication and the decedent were transported in to the FSC. Clothing (Red Jogging Suit) released to friend of the family per request of Evelyn Wallace who says she was the secretary to deceased.

No additional information known by this investigator at this time." [end quote of autopsy starting with "Signed by" above].

According to those present (Agnes Carpenter and I believe the maid, Florine, but not positive on maid), Karen was lying on the floor, face down, unclothed, in her brother's room (top of stairs to the left side) by her brother's walk-in closet.  The "decedent" comment above is a bit misleading.  As Agnes had stated that she was downstairs in the kitchen when she had noticed that the coffee pot had been turned on earlier by Karen but Karen hadn't returned downstairs.  Agnes did not actually see Karen earlier that morning but Agnes had heard Karen moving around and the coffee pot had been turned on.  So Agnes (mom) called on the house phone and Karen did not pick up.  Agnes (mom) then proceeded up the stairs while calling for Karen and then Agnes (mom) found Karen in Richard's room unresponsive on the floor.  The "decedent" part above is misleading as it makes someone think that Karen was found on the floor in the kitchen which was not the case.  There was a bit missing in the dialogue from "mother entered the kitchen" and "and found the decedent unresponsive on the floor" in this report.  Mistakes can and do happen, but unfortunately this autopsy report is loaded with mistakes.

From doctors, fibro myalgia and cystic fibrosis and other 'fibro' type diagnoses have all been found from those that were born premature or a genetic defect and appear to be problems associated with a child being born prematurely and / or with a genetic defect.  Cells (fibros) do not develop normally from birth and can be problematic as a child grows older.  There are also studies that have been done to try and link certain genetic strains to certain problems.  There does not appear to be any genetic link with any chemical (outside the chemicals of ASTC, the groundwork chemicals for genetics and DNA), but in every case, the person was born premature or with a genetic defect.  Many studies have been done but as of yet, there still does not appear to be any cases (outside of cancer cells) where an abnormal cell development (fibro / fibrosis) appears to happen outside of a person being born abnormally (premature or genetic defect).  It is a bit of a stretch for someone to believe that a cell structure problem could be caused by a chemical that does not alter cell structures or replications thereof.  Well, actually, impossible.  Yes, it is impossible for a chemical that does not alter cell structures or replications thereof to alter cell structures or replications thereof.  No duh.  It takes a lot of duh to sit there and say Emetine, which is a chemical that irritates the stomach and does not alter cell structures or replications thereof, alters cell structures and / or replications thereof.  A truth is still a truth whether believed or not.  Dunce caps anyone?  Thinking caps?  Hair peace?  Brain peace.  THINKE (Take Heart In Not Knowing Everything).  Relax.  Wait, um, Frankie went to Hollywood, right?  Really?  Don't do it.  Just don't.  Don't.  But this part is here on the subjective page as I do not remember for sure if Fibro Myalgia was actually mentioned on Karen's full autopsy or not.  If it was mentioned in the autopsy then this paragraph would belong on the "Karen's Last Days" page with the other objective information.

But the Emetine was actually digested and stored in the liver and was not recent.  There was not any emetine found in Karen's blood stream aka the emetine found was "residua" and not "active" or "recent".  As noted, yes, hyperosmolar coma.  And yes, the 'anorexia' red flag as a woman that is 5'4" tall weighing 108 pounds is not actually anorexic at that point.  And another red flag of emetine cardiotoxicity of a heart that is stated as being 'normal' without having visible damage or defects.  Hint, in order for something to be considered 'toxic' it needs to cause harm or damage to something else (cardiotoxic would be damage to the heart or aorta).  1,110 Blood Glucose level is fatal.  0.46 mL of emetine stored in someone's liver has never been known to be fatal for anyone and is yet another red flag here.  And even more red flags with the Ativan pills there and a notation of 'Depression'.  How would a coroner know if a dead person was depressed or not?  Just a thought there and a lot of red flags all over this on so many levels.  And not shown but yeah the Ativan was dated 1/10/83 which is exactly four years after Richard was admitted into Meninger's clinic in Topeka Kansas on 1/10/79 and Richard was given Ativan to help with the DTs he was having from Quaalude withdrawals.  Ativan is for muscle seizures, spasms, twitching, epilepsy and such and was not prescribed for depression at the time (1970s / 1980s).  Valium was the wonder drug prescribed for depression at the time (later after 1988 / 1989 Prozac).  I am about to say white flag now as I need to surrender to all these red flags that popped up.  So a hyperosmolar coma resulting in cardiac arrest from a 1110 Blood Glucose level that is substantiated as a definite cause of death.  And a whole bunch of sensationalistic red and white flagged drivel that is unsubstantiated and in many cases contradicts itself as a cause of death included.

Later (1977 onward) when Karen went to try and get help for the anorexia part, the help wasn't doing too good so rather than create a public mess over it, Karen kept it to herself.  Karen would talk in private about it, but it was just a big mess and Karen didn't want a bigger mess by going public with it.  It was a case of "What do you say when things are not going well?" as nothing anyone can say in a situation like that will make anything better.  Just tabloid fodder junk comes out of situations like that.  Karen wasn't much for having her name dragged through the tabloids, so she kept quiet about the anorexia treatments publicly but she would discuss it privately.  But it was just a big mess and being public would have only just made it a bigger mess with the tabloids and such getting involved.

As far as Karen's anorexia.  It was simple actually.  Someone had to ask Karen why she didn't eat and allow Karen to answer back in her own words.  The difficult part is that Karen had so many answers as to why she didn't eat depending on what thought(s) she might be having at the time, such as...

In 1975, it was not actually anorexia but the touring schedule that caused problems.  After being hospitalized in September 1975, doctors had found that Karen had arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) and that there were no physical problems but Karen was born premature weighing 5 pounds at birth and so the arrhythmia was most likely a birth defect of sorts that couldn't be found.  Karen's mom was the one who mentioned Karen being born premature and while Karen was in the hospital in 1975, Karen's mom was by Karen's side for 14 to 16 hours a day.  Karen had not taken any pills or such before this time and here is what happened (according to several talks that Karen and I had from September 1978 to around June 1979) to cause Karen's collapse in 1975...

Karen had a rule that she did not perform or sleep on a full stomach.  Karen would not eat 4 hours before a performance or 4 hours before sleeping (as a joke too, Karen said she wouldn't eat an hour before swimming instead of the usual half hour).  It was not dieting or exercising, but the rule of not eating before performing or sleeping that was causing Karen to lose weight.  When admitted to the hospital, Karen weighed 91 pounds.  She was not actually anorexic at that point in 1975 when she passed out.  There also were not excess laxatives or such at this point either.  Because of the hectic tour schedule, Karen had been dropping weight with her sleeping and performing rules.  Other band members had been having problems as well.  After being hospitalized and finding the arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) doctors had talked with Karen about having a pacemaker installed in September 1975.  Karen refused to be kept alive by a machine as Karen figured if God wanted her to have a heart that beat normal, Karen would have a heart that beat normal, but since Karen's heart was not beating normal, Karen felt that this was how God wanted Karen to be.  A side note also here, with a blood sugar level over 1100, even a pacemaker would not have kept Karen's heart beating for too long.

The bulimia, sticking finger down throat, started around 1975 when Karen would eat then stick her finger down her throat before performing or sleeping.  Empty stomach.

The only laxatives that I had ever seen Karen take were X-LAX.  I didn't see Karen from June 22, 1979 to June 12, 1981 but in the time I knew Karen, I had never known Karen to use Dulcolax and I'm not really sure if Dulcolax even existed back then.  But X-LAX, you know those little chocolate squares in shiny tin foil.  Karen loved chocolate and not sure if that may have been part of Karen's taking too many laxatives problem in the beginning.  Karen had told me that she took the laxatives for constipation and I told Karen, "Your eyes are brown; you're full of it.  My eyes are blue; I'm a quart low."  A few days or weeks later Karen got sick from taking too many laxatives and realized what I had said as she asked me and I told her that I knew the laxatives weren't for constipation.  Later in June 1981, Karen and I had another dilemma.  Thomas Burris' eyes were blue too.  Karen figured it out though as Karen said, "Tom's eyes are blue; I think he's got an air bubble in there."

Karen's exercising was for her arrhythmia and keeping her heart rate up so her heart didn't stop again like in 1975.  Karen would check her pulse on her wrist or neck.  Karen's exercising had nothing to do with anorexia.  Karen knew from experience that exercising just put on muscle which you can lose fat but you can't lose muscle except by not exercising.  Karen knew that you don't lose weight by exercising as exercising puts on muscle.  Karen exercised to try and keep her heart rate up because of her arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) and the fact that Karen did not want a pacemaker (machine) installed for her arrhythmia.  Yes, Karen was in her right mind and knew what she was doing.

Another problem that Karen had.  Karen realized that when she lost too much weight her visitor (menstruation) would stop.  Karen always had a difficult time with her visitor and she would get tired and run down and such during that time.  Karen would purposely lose extra weight at times so that her visitor would not happen.

In 1977, Karen had a mini stroke.  One side of Karen's face had been paralyzed but Karen had regained the use of her face muscles but at times the one side of her face would appear slightly droopy when I saw her from 1978 to 1979.  Most of the time I knew Karen, her face appeared normal.  When her face appeared droopy Karen and I referred to it as her "Mona Lisa smile" rather than mentioning her having a stroke again.  (note here too, you can see this droopiness happen in the Merry Christmas Darling segment of the 1978 Christmas Portrait Special).  Tests done again in 1977 and same arrhythmia diagnosis.  After this Karen tried to keep away from hospitals as every time Karen would get hooked up to an EKG machine and every time the doctors would ask Karen about having a pacemaker installed.

In either 1977 or early 1978 Karen had past regressive hypnotherapy done in San Diego.  It was after this hypnotherapy that Karen realized another problem in addition to the 4 hour rules she had of not eating before performing or sleeping.  After the hypnotherapy, Karen started getting thoughts in her head that all kids are attractive and for Karen to consider herself attractive, Karen started feeling that she needed to be straight as a board like a little girl.  Karen also noticed that if she was above 100 pounds that this 'child' type thought didn't happen, but somehow after dropping below 100 pounds, Karen would start getting the "all little girls are attractive" thought which included Karen thinking she needed to be "straight as a board like a little girl".

As another odd thought that Karen couldn't figure out why that thought would happen (like the straight as a board thought) was a few times when Karen started getting too thin, she got a thought that maybe she might get raped because she was too thin and attractive.  So Karen was saying she had a kind of 'binge and purge' problem too at one time.  But unlike the rules stuff (sleeping, performing) that she thought about, the odd thoughts would just pop in her head without her thinking about it.

In May 1979, I saw Karen in a hospital and I heard and saw how off her EKG was and I also knew that Karen was not on any pills or such at the time.  Karen's EKG was like a messed up game of Pong with bleeps, bloops, blips and pauses and nothing steady from the EKG machine.  I also saw first hand that Karen had dealt many times with the pacemaker question as Karen answered that question easily.  Karen was not going to be kept alive by a machine.  If God wanted Karen to have a pacemaker then God would have installed a pacemaker.  To which I shot back, "Well maybe this is God's way of saying you need it now" to which Karen shot back quickly, "if God wants my heart to beat steady, it would beat steady.  No pacemaker.  I will not be kept alive by a machine.  If God wants my heart to beat steady He would make it beat steady."  That was that.  Karen made her point and even the doctor on duty agreed with her point but the doctor still felt it his duty to make the offer.  Not sure if microphones or such would interfere with a pacemaker either.  My guess is not, but still a thought on my end.  I know that Karen and I talked about electronics and a pacemaker which is how I know that it was Karen's belief in not being kept alive by a machine and leaving it in God's hands.  Karen's decision to not have a pacemaker installed did not have anything to do with her career and such.

In January 1982, Karen entered Levenkron's Clinic weighing 78 pounds (5.5 stone).  In September 1982 Karen was taken to Lennox Hill Hospital weighing 77 pounds (5.5 stone).  The scales said 82 pounds and the scales also said that Karen had on 5 pounds of clothing during the weighing in September 1982.  Why don't they mention this in the books and biographies and documentaries and such?  If this is helpful therapy for Karen then can I interest you in buying the Brooklyn Bridge too?

For those wishing to know, Karen had told me that she had been tested as an INFJ-A personality type on the MBI (Myers-Briggs Index).  Just a heads up here about the kind of person that Karen was.  Karen and I were both INFJ-A's and we were a lot alike.  Well, actually, INFJ-A types tend to try to be different from everyone else.  Very unique and very self reliant and all that.  And for those not wishing to know, yes it is impossible for a person with an INFJ-A type personality to fit that profile of an anorexic; truth be told against your wishes.

More about this therapy with Levenkron (and others).  Levenkron admitted that he was against taking Karen into the program as Karen was not the type of person that could benefit from this program.  Levenkron has said that part of the program involves brainwashing the client into becoming dependent upon only the therapist (and not dependent on her family).  What a mess this brainwashing stuff has created and it didn't work as is evidenced by Karen's weighings and all that leftover psychobabble still being spread around.  Karen couldn't be brainwashed into hating anyone but Karen did tell me that she dropped the "f bomb" on at least one therapist in February 1978 (at the LA Mental Health Clinic as Levenkron's clinic was in 1982).  Karen's therapy stuff was just a big mess which is why she never talked about it publicly.  Karen and Richard both had a rule after the "Mott the Hoople" incident in the early 70's where Richard and Karen agreed to not say anything that could be taken as negative in public.  Karen honestly had nothing nice to say about her therapy sessions as they were that bad.  Richard had nice things to say about his rehab for his quaalude addiction, but neither Richard, Karen nor anyone else in the family had anything nice to say about Karen's therapy for anorexia.  Karen wasn't hiding her anorexia so much as she couldn't say anything nice publicly about the therapy she got for her anorexia.  And being a mess privately, publicly would have just made a bigger mess so Karen avoided talking about her anorexia publicly as that would only add to the mess that was already there.

From late September to early November 1982 Karen was in Lennox Hill Hospital where they did an experimental procedure to boost Karen's weight.  Karen went from 77 pounds in September 1982 to 104 pounds in November 1982 at the hospital.  The treatment involved intravenous feeding of sugars and carbohydrates.  Karen had colitis and was having difficulty digesting solid food.  When originally doing the procedure they had accidentally punctured Karen's lung.  Accidents can and do happen.  As Karen's blood sugar did go through the roof (over 1100), no way to know for sure if the accident may have played a major part or not in Karen's final and fatal blood sugar spike.  It is for sure that it was an accident though.

In November 1982, Karen went home to be with her mom and dad.  When Karen went home she weighed 108 pounds and according to the autopsy report above too, Karen weighed 108 pounds when she passed away in February 1983.  While home, Karen and her mom had an idea that appeared to be working on keeping Karen's weight steady.  The idea was that Karen only weighed herself once a week.  The family would at times hide the scales on Karen to make sure she didn't weigh herself except on Friday mornings which was the day agreed upon.

It was in mid to late January 1983 when Karen developed hepatitis from having her tattoo removed.  A blood test had been done and I do not have the actual number but Karen's glucol (blood sugar) level I am pretty sure was slightly elevated (between 200 and 400) but not enough to require treatment for diabetes.  Karen had mentioned something about her blood sugar level and had told me the actual number on the blood test, but that was 38 years ago and I never wrote it down.  But Karen was not officially diagnosed with diabetes that I am aware of.  I am also very sure that Karen had been given a shot for the hepatitis (I believe ALBUTUROL or something like that) and it did show up in the toxicology report.  Karen had not been on insulin nor had Karen any needles or such around at the time of her passing.  The shot for the hepatitis was given at the doctor's office (or hospital?) in mid to late January 1983 I believe.

As far as passing away, the body releases glucol to relax muscles.  Karen's level was deadly at over 1100 since most people will pass out at around a level over 800.  There is a strong possibility that probably some of the fluid from the Lennox Hill procedure may had been still in Karen's system after the lung puncture incident.  Clear liquid is hard to detect.  The amount of time between the lung puncture and Karen's glucol level spiking makes it not known for sure.  Can not be sure that any fluid was or wasn't left behind or in what quantity if any.  The best idea I have heard was from a person that had asked if Karen had been under a lot of stress.  The relief of stress is usually done inside the body with the release of glucol (blood sugar) to relax the nerves and muscles.  Karen had also been winning her battle against anorexia and had stayed steady at about 108 pounds for nearly 3 months.  Karen was planning on the divorce taking years.  Karen had been under a lot of stress for quite a while, not from her family or music career, but from worrying about what her soon to be ex-husband might plan next to try and get as much as he could out of Karen before a divorce was issued.  Thomas Burris signing the divorce papers was a relief of a lot of stress for Karen.  On top of that, Karen had been worrying about Phil Ramone trying to sneak off and release her solo album behind her back.  Karen had actually had a lot of stress from doing that solo album as well as Karen didn't want a solo career or such as noted in the liner notes from Phil Ramone about Karen's solo album.  Karen was also planning on eloping with a guy that she really cared about (she cared enough to leave her love to him listed with her personal items in a list Richard had that Richard read with Karen's Will but did not file this list publicly) and Karen had known this guy since September 1978.  Karen had a lot of stress removed around February 3, 1983 with Tom signing the divorce papers and Karen looking forward to being with a guy she had known over 4 and a half years and Karen was looking forward to spending the rest of her life with this guy. Past stress and future stress too.  And relief is spelled R-E-L-I-E-F or possibly F-A-R-T and maybe R-O-L-A-I-D-S even.  But to each our own.  A massive relief of stress in a short period of time.  The body releases glucol to relax muscles and nerves.  Possible.

From my own observations of Karen, her anorexia would seem to kick in more after she had difficulty going to the bathroom than anything else.  Karen talked about image problems and weight and such, but it seemed like that stuff would kick in after she had difficulty going to the bathroom (a half hour or more at times and using a plunger afterwards and she hadn't thrown up but had plugged the toilet).  Karen had colitis for nearly seven and a half years and although not directly stated on her autopsy, Karen's autopsy revealed that she still had colitis when she passed away (swollen intestines and such).  But also, it wasn't just one problem like "colitis" as Karen might worry about her eating if she had a TV show to do but also if she was feeling that guys didn't find her attractive enough and such.  Karen also had a difficult and rough time with her visitor (menstruation) and she would always get tired and feel drained during her visitor.  Karen found out that if she lost too much weight, her visitor would stop.  At times Karen would purposely lose weight so that her visitor stopped and she didn't get the cramping and bloating and feeling drained and exhausted and such.  There were several different reasons Karen might have for not eating and in order to find out what Karen might be thinking about, you had to ask.  In all seriousness, at times, Karen wouldn't even know why she hadn't been eating.  Karen seemed to have more reasons not to eat than to eat.  Colitis (trouble going to the bathroom)?  Her visitor (menstruation)?  Nervous stomach?  TV show appearance?  Being on stage?   Feeling unattractive?  Feeling she needed to be "straight as a board"?  And whatever else.  Karen's anorexia was a set of several underlying problems and not just one problem of 'not eating'.  And after having so many thoughts of "don't eat because of this" and "don't eat because of that" that Karen just wouldn't eat out of the habit of not eating.  The only person asking Karen not to eat was Karen, herself.

And honestly for a change here, none of this really has anything to do with family or control issues which was why none of that psychobabble ever helped Karen and still doesn't help most that have anorexia.  Brainwashing is the repeating of something over and over again hoping that others accept it as truth (despite the obvious untruth being told) after hearing it so many times.  Psychobabble is a form of brainwashing.  Karen and Cherry (Boone) O’Neill were nearly exact opposites and that anorexic profile is based on Cherry and her “Starving for Attention” book and not like Karen at all.  I don't know why they keep trying to change Karen's life to match the story told by Cherry Boone instead of just telling Karen's true story either.  That anorexic profile is nothing like Karen so they keep trying to twist Karen's life to match this profile instead of having the guts to admit that the anorexic profile being used is extremely faulty and does not match 80 to 90% of anorexics.  Karen especially does not even come close to fitting that anorexic profile as Karen was an INFJ-A type personality and that anorexic profile is for someone with an extrovert type personality.

And as this is a community page, I am moving the Rant and Rave type stuff about "Control Issues", "Attention Issues", "Psychobabble Issues" and "Loneliness Issues" to this rantnrave.html page.

And finally, this would  not have been possible without many people in the community coming together and sharing ideas and information.

To name a few...

Karen Carpenter (probably contributed most of the background information during our talks in 1978, 1979, 1981 and on February 3, 1983 also information about having jaundice [hepatitis] from her tattoo being removed and her 'visitor' being due soon and probably a few other things I am forgetting here)

Richard Carpenter (I saw Richard on February 4, 1983 and I have not talked with him since and the information about the breathing tube from the life support machine and Richard "pulling the plug" comment to me as well as the information as to Karen passing away near his walk-in closet and also the information about the Ativan pills that were found from his red jogging suit - pills dated 1-10-83 or 4 years after Richard was admitted into Meninger's Clinic and the fact that Richard was not at his parent's house when Karen passed away)

Agnes Carpenter (information about what Karen had to eat on February 3 plus the time Karen ate @6 PM)

David Murphy (confirmed Karen passed away near Richard's walk-in closet)

LA Coroner's office (original autopsy and then the public release of the full autopsy report - 25 pages - around 2020)

Physician, Dr. Edwards? (information about Karen's high glucol level and medical knowledge)

Lennox Hill Hospital (publicly releasing Karen's weight information of 77 pounds in September 1982 and 104 pounds in October / November 1982)

Levenkron Clinic (publicly releasing information about Karen weighing 5.5 stone or 78 pounds when she entered the clinic in January 1982.  Also information about the anorexic profile and that Karen did not fit that profile that was used for treatment but Levenkron let Karen in anyway in January 1982/  Also information about the treatments themselves)

Texas Princess (medical knowledge and many questions)

Mikey 7800? (medical knowledge and many questions)

Bill Parthum (many questions, especially the attention to the needle marks in the groin area stuff, and motivation)

Me, Adrian 'Ace' Downing III (putting all this together plus a couple odds and ends here and there and a desire to understand more)

and probably a few more I missed here

Here's one I missed before, those that have been dealing with having an eating problem or such (not just anorexia as one is only considered an anorexic if they fall below a certain weight percentage, 15% below normal weight or 85% body mass index I believe, something like that as it is difficult to word properly).  Everyone is hoping you get better as it is a difficult problem to deal with and varies with each individual as to causes and possible solutions.  As such, get medically checked out as like with Karen, there could be other underlying issues involved (like hepatitis, colitis, arrhythmia, diabetes [hyperglycemia] and such).  After being medically checked out then see about other possible mental treatments.  Unfortunately, the 'mental help' is still not any better in most cases than it was back in the 1970s and 1980s with Karen.  The two ideas I have heard that appear to help the most are "weigh yourself only once a week" and "stop looking at yourself in the mirror".  As the issues are different between different people, people asked me to try and build a page to try and explain Karen's situation more thoroughly to try and help people understand better what 'objectively' happened with Karen and not trying to tell some 'story' for a change.  And with therapy, if you start being told what you are thinking (without asking if it is true) instead of a therapist asking what you are thinking, that is a sure sign of a 'quack' that is stuck in the outdated 'anorexic profile' mode of thinking and you should probably look for help elsewhere to help maintain your sanity.  And with that, better wishes to you to help try and build a better tomorrow for you.

But especially The entire Carpenters' Fan Community for inspiration and a desire to understand more.

If interested in more details as this is an overview page, try here (Karen Carpenter Question & Answer page) karenqa.html or here (Karen Carpenter personal stories from 'the other Adrian [not John Adrian]') karencarp.html .

There is one last hidden puzzle piece here that I am keeping hidden except for those that may accidently see.  After Karen passed away there was a rumor floating around at the time that people had seen a tall, lanky man in a suit running down the street after Karen passed away.  If that rumor is true there is only one explanation for that which I will post here (blanked out of course).  The Roman Catholic Church was against Karen and I getting together.  Had mine or Karen's phone been tapped and they heard our conversation on Thursday February 3, 1983 then the incident about the tall, lanky man in a suit running down the street would have been a person by the name of Sir Nicholas Born, assistant to the Archdeacon of Canterbury, and it would have been a murder arranged by the Roman Catholic Church to make sure that Karen and I never got together to get married.  That is why I am writing this but also hiding this as without the confirmation of the rumor of a tall, lanky gentleman in a suit running down the street being confirmed, this is a speculation best left hidden in case that rumor ends up being either false or true.

And also, this page was derived from a massive page I originally called Karen Hoax here .  That page has been deprecated (made obsolete) by this Karen's Last Days page.