Karen Carpenter Time Line (approximate)

First, Contact Information - email - theeaceman64@gmail.com

As the web pages are not quite chronological due to 'story continuity' issues, this page should help with the chronology.  It's not exact, but as close as I can get without having Karen's diary (or my own diary [girl] / journal [boy]) to go on.  For more detailed information about Karen Carpenter and myself and others, go to this page, karencarp.html .


Karen Carpenter facts overlooked by documentaries and books (and by those who read and watch them)

1. Karen Carpenter was diagnosed with arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) after hospital stays in 1975 and 1977.  Karen refused to have a pacemaker installed.  "If God wants me to stay alive, then I will stay alive.  But if God wants me to be with Him, I will be with Him."

2. Karen started seeing therapists and psychiatrists and psychologists starting in either late 1977 or early 1978.  To note, nearly everything out there written by these people has been proven to be false about Karen and her family.   Read that stuff with extreme caution.  It is a process known as 'pigeon holing' and unfortunately most of the 'profiles' of an anorexic do not match the actual profile of Karen Carpenter or Karen's actual family.  Reader beware on this stuff.  Many movies, documentaries, and books have been tailored to try and fit these warped ideas, based on 'profiling', that are not true about Karen and her family.  And as it has been said about this kind of stuff, "fiction" and I agree.  As far as movies, documentaries, and books - faulty information only makes for a more faulty story.  Truthfully, Karen's actual truth (not story) has yet to be told.  More truthfully, Karen is not around to tell her actual story and if you notice, the ones with the most to hide are the most vocal and are always trying to blame others besides themselves.  The ones with the least to hide have been the most quiet and have not blamed anyone.  (1978 - 1979, LIII, LII)

3. Karen and John Adrian went their separate ways as Karen wanted to live in the USA and John wanted to live in the UK.  This happened in 1977.  John Adrian had a sweater made up for Karen with his pet name for Karen, “Snickers”, knitted into the red, white & blue sweater.  Karen laughed (snickered) a lot and “Snickers” had nothing to do with the candy bar but was John’s pet name for Karen.  But according to John, the Snickers name had to do with the candy bar and not about Karen laughing (snickering).  Go figure.  In a private conversation with Karen in September or early October 1978, Karen brought up John Adrian.  Karen said that John had always seemed to say the right things and that she had feelings for him.  People were starting to tell Karen that John was seeing someone else besides Karen.  Karen and John went separate ways in 1977, and Karen heard that shortly after John had got married to someone.  From 1977 and onward, Karen felt that John Adrian had just been "stringing me along" and Karen was not the least bit interested in John Adrian any more after she heard about him just suddenly meeting someone else after him and Karen broke up.  I think Karen sent John Adrian and his new wife a crystal punch bowl set for their wedding.

4. Karen was an 8th grade english teacher from September 6, 1978 to June 22, 1979 at a New York State Middle School.  Karen used an alias of course.  Hidden from public view.  And to note, the alias was hired and approved by the local school board on September 5, 1978 based on having just a high school diploma (and not knowing she was a celebrity).

5. Karen wrote very often and wrote very romantically about a guy who's first name was Adrian in her diaries starting in September 1978.  This is a guy who's first name was Adrian and most people knew him as 'Ace'.

6. The actual start of Karen's solo album (non fiction version)

Karen had a mini stroke in late 1977 and one half of her face was paralyzed for a short while.  On occasion, Karen's one side of her face would freeze up.  Richard was worried about his sister and was trying to get away from touring and more into TV shows and such which were closer to home.  Karen and Richard were both looking to try and get a break but things had been booked but only about a year in advance so they tried to lighten the load after Karen had a mini stroke and Richard had been shaking a bit here and there from his addiction to quaaludes.

It started on September 4, 1978 in Las Vegas as after the show Richard had told Karen, "I quit" and Karen asked, "Do you mean it?" and Richard had said, "Yes.  I can't do this anymore."

So Karen snuck off and moved in with her step Cousin Wendy B in New York State on September 4, 1978.  I met Karen on September 6, 1978 (but I did not know her as Karen Carpenter at the time).

Around mid October 1978, Paul Williams showed up (and I found out she was Karen Carpenter) and Paul showed up to have Karen sign her and Richard's new recording contract with A&M Records.  Karen and Paul talked and Karen did not sign the contract at that time.  Karen did not tell Paul this, but there was a clause in that new contract about a 'new album' and with Richard 'quitting', how could there be a new album if Richard had quit?  Well, actually, Christmas Portrait was going to be released, but Karen hadn't thought about that.  Also, the single, "I Believe You" came out just after Paul and Karen met in mid October 1978 too.  Paul left and the contract was not signed by Karen on that day.

In the second full week of December (beginning December 11) 1978, Jerry Weintraub showed up in New York State with Richard too.  Jerry had booked the Carpenters on "The Bruce Forsyth Show" for the Christmas Special.  Richard was in no shape to perform.  Richard was shaking so bad and he got a glass of water to take pills with and nearly the whole glass of water had shaken all over the floor before Richard took his pills.  Richard left the room at one point.  Jerry, Karen and I were standing there and I believe Jerry tossed a silver dollar into the air and it was called by Karen and if it was heads then Karen did the show without Richard and tails the show was cancelled.  The coin fell off Jerry's wrist and Jerry picked it up off the floor and put it under his one hand and on his other wrist.  Then Jerry said to Karen, "I'll make a deal with you.  I'll give you anything you want if you'll agree that this coin is heads and you do the show."  Karen then asked if Jerry would agree to let Richard have whatever time Richard wanted off to go to a rehab and get his quaalude addiction dealt with.  Jerry said it was a deal and then Jerry pulled his hand away and the coin was on tails.  Anyway, Karen took off for the week from her step cousin Wendy's and did the show but also, on December 12, Karen and Richard met in Topeka Kansas and Richard did the pre-admission to Meninger's clinic and then Richard went back to California and Karen flew back to London to finish taping the Bruce show.  My nickname is Ace and during the show Karen asked Bruce to work in saying my name, Ace, which Bruce did to try and help Karen relax a little more as Karen wasn't so much nervous about doing the show without Richard, but Karen was nervous because Richard had been in such bad shape before Karen left to do the show and Karen was hoping her brother was going to be all right.

Richard entered Meninger's clinic in Topeka Kansas on January 10, 1979.  Karen was still primarily living with her step cousin Wendy in New York State.

As noted in Karen's diary in red pen (as Karen was using a two-sided teacher's pen with black and red ink, and the black side had run out, so Karen was not one to waste anything and used the red side in her diary), 'confrontation about album'.  Well, if you haven't noticed yet, there is not any discussion about a solo album as the idea for a solo album had not yet been thought of.  So 'confrontation about album'?  Well, it was over the phone (Karen in New York and Richard in Topeka) and it was about a discussion about that new recording contract.  Jerry Weintraub had called Richard about the new contract not being signed and Richard called Karen about it and Karen brought it up to Richard about that "new album" clause and Richard was a bit upset but understood and told Karen not to worry about that new album clause and to sign the contract.  This was on Wednesday January 24, 1979.  I am pretty sure that I saw Jerry again on January 26, 1979 and on that day Karen signed the new contract in front of Jerry Weintraub and myself.

Karen and I had a private joke about Jerry and we would sit there at times and just twiddle our thumbs in honor of how Jerry Weintraub kept complaining about being idle as a manager.  During February 1979, Jerry read that new contract and came up with an idea of asking Karen to do a solo album.

In the beginning around late March to early April 1979 there were 7 people that knew about Karen doing a solo album.  Those 7 people in order of knowing were Jerry Weintraub, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss, Karen Carpenter, step cousin Wendy B------k, me, Richard Carpenter.  Agnes Carpenter found out that Karen and Richard had an argument which was how Agnes (mom) became number 8.  Then Eddie Kramer became number 9.

Karen and Richard were both wanting to take time off from the music biz but what good is a manager "twiddling his thumbs" with nothing to manage?  Weintraub came up with an idea for Karen doing a solo album and he presented the idea to Alpert and Moss (as the Carpenters were A & M's biggest sellers and A & M was looking for more product to sell and not 'time off').  Alpert and Moss were OK with it as it would possibly be more product and more money for A & M.  So Jerry Weintraub mentioned it to Karen and Karen said NO!!! 

And cousin Wendy and then I got an earful.  Karen wanted time off and Karen was busy doing something not music related and Karen was living in New York State (not the city) with her cousin Wendy and working weekdays with a couple week long vacations while staying with her cousin and working on her arrhythmia and anorexia problems.  Karen was not wanting to go back to work before her 7 to 3 job ended on June 22, 1979.  Karen said NO!!! to Jerry, Jerry, and Herb.   Note also, Karen did not want her brother to actually 'quit' either and was hoping that Richard would do something instead.

Jerry, Jerry and Herb next approached Karen again and said they had talked with Richard and Richard and Karen had a disagreement and Karen said NO!!! yet again and why should Karen give up her time off and Karen asked Jerry, Jerry and Herb why didn't Richard do a solo album or greatest hits album or such and why did it have to be on Karen's shoulders?  Why did Karen have to sacrifice her time off especially since Karen was the one who sacrificed with the Bruce Forsyth show and such. 

Karen was livid and fuming.  Mom found out that her son and daughter were having a disagreement and intervened.  Richard was out getting groceries one day and mom called Karen up at Karen's work and mom had a talk with Karen about what was going on.  I was in the room with Karen, so I heard this call.  Anyway, mom asked Karen to do this as a favor for her brother ("whatever it was" as mom put it) and that mom would make sure that any favor that Karen asked for in return would be granted from Richard.  Mom did not know that they wanted Karen to do a solo album.  Mom only knew that Karen and Richard had a disagreement.

Mom told Karen that Richard wanted time off as Richard had just started seeing Mary Rudolph and that was all it took for Karen to agree to do 'her' solo album.  Karen was tired of her brother meeting all these "gold diggers" and Mary was an adopted cousin (not blood relation) and not a gold digger.  Karen LOVED playing match maker.  So Karen jumped on board for her solo album and the primary favor Karen asked for was that she finish her job until June 22, 1979. 

The finishing job favor was kept (there was a problem in mid May 1979 and the favor was kept as Richard intervened and Richard got to meet me, the reason why Karen was wanting to finish her job.  And Richard also kept me a secret as me was 14 years old at the time and Karen and I were spending time together but Karen and I had also agreed that we would wait till I got older as my age was a bit of a legal problem so Karen and I had a rule of no physical touching.  And imagine the mess if the press got a hold of Karen around a 14 year old and Richard with his adopted first cousin.  Yes, goody four shoes had some possible publicity problems at this time).  I was around Karen and Karen was in the local hospital on one day, but that was the only day she missed on her job and Karen finished working that job on June 22, 1979. 

The other favors were between Karen and Richard (and the "we split the cost" favor was brought up between Karen and Richard a couple times and the end decision was between Karen and Richard themselves, but Richard was asked to pay half as it was only fair since Richard was the one that wanted time off to be with Mary, but Karen was almost to the point of "why don't you pay all of it Richard since you want the time off so bad?" but I am pretty sure Karen did stick with half as "that was fair" but Karen would write the check and Richard would put half of that amount in Karen's account [shhh]). 

Then they contacted Eddie Kramer...  (And I was there when Eddie Kramer came out to New York State and talked with Karen and asked Karen to try someone else as Eddie was used to artists that did their own material and Eddie would feel like a "fish out of water" just like Karen would be a "fish out of water" without her brother (and Eddie and Karen were both Pisces) and Eddie mentioned that he usually inspired his artists to write their own material with the "raison d'etre" [reason of being, purpose] speech which was where Karen had the melody of "I wanna uh with you, uh, uh, uh, uh" pop into her head which later Rod Temperton and Karen turned into the "Rock with You" song in May 1979).  Eddie was the one who recommended Phil Ramone as a producer.

Another note here, Richard was the one that always wanted a music career.  Karen liked having a music career too.  When Richard said "I quit" in early September 1978 it caught Karen by surprise.  Karen did not want her brother giving up on his dream.  After agreeing to do the solo album, Karen was actually hoping the album would be bad enough that Richard wouldn't quit and would get back into music again after dealing with his addiction.  So when Richard said something like "It sounds like sh*t" in May 1980, that was actually what Karen wanted to hear from Richard.  Karen loved making music with her brother and all that they had accomplished together.  Walls full of gold records (and for those that wonder, yes, according to Karen, gold records sound the same as regular records and just have a different color is all), three Grammys, Billboard Awards and all that.  Maybe if Richard heard what a disaster Karen's career might be without him, Richard might not want to quit?

Now, do you really think Karen was going to say all this to Phil and Itchie and Rod while trying to use them to make a 'sh*tty' album to try and get her brother to stay in music?

OK, so, um, to get the story straight here, Karen was looking to leave her brother who had saved her life in a motorcycle accident in 1973, who she had won numerous awards (gold records, three Grammys, Billboard Awards, etc.) and someone who she trusted, for a guy who had trouble keeping a steady clientele because his client's names would get dragged through the tabloid mud to sell more records at the expense of their personal lives being ruined, had trouble keeping his stories straight and won one Grammy Award.  Why doesn't this sound right?  Even worst, why do some people believe this hogwash (hogwarsh as Karen would say), poppycock (Richard), nonsense (me) and bullsh*t (nearly everyone else)?  OK, I get it.  First, try and get a bunch of 'experts' that never met or talked with someone and have those 'experts' put their thoughts and words in the other person's head and mouth since the other person isn't around anymore and can't speak on her own behalf (shh, I'm not trying to be an expert on this but don't mention that all people make mistakes in a process known as learning and that 'experts' don't make mistakes because they know it all so therefore experts are actually just figments of their own imaginations, double shh).  Try to minimize that these others never met this person too.  Try to get half stories and such to try and bolster this false image too.  Shh, um, leave out a bunch of stuff, like three Grammy Awards, so that hopefully the story sounds believable.  Just mention Billy Joel, but keep away from what happened to Billy in the tabloids and how after the Grammy, Billy's life went downhill and the tabloid mess with him and his ex-wives and wife beater all that, shh.  Stay superficial and don't dig too deep.  You don't want to wreck a good selling story.  And as far as stories out there, try these review pages (from a biased guy that knew Karen Carpenter very well and spent countless hours actually talking with Karen, herself)... Ray Coleman, "Carpenters - The Untold Story", book, 1994, untoldstory94.html .  "The Karen Carpenter Story", movie, 1989, karencarpstory.html .  Rob Hoerburger, "Karen Carpenter's Second Life", article, New York Times, October 6 1996, robtimes.html .  "Goodbye To Love", movie, 2016, (which also includes mentioning "Yesterday Once More", documentary, 1996.  "Close To You: Remembering the Carpenters", documentary, 1998.  "Only Yesterday - The Carpenters Story", documentary, 2007.  "Living Famously - Karen Carpenter", documentary, 2003), goodbyetolovecrock.html .  Randy Schmidt, "Little Girl Blue : The Life of Karen Carpenter", book, 2012, littlegirlblue.html .

7. Why Karen had her solo album shelved (non fiction version)

Karen was the one who made the decision to 'shelve' her solo album.  Karen had help making that decision, but contrary to popular belief, Karen was the one who made the decision to not release the album.  The help came from an interview that Karen did for Rolling Stone magazine on March 17, 1980 which got Karen thinking about possible publicity concerns (possible rumors starting about Karen leaving the Carpenters to go solo) instead of just Karen thinking about music content like she had been.  The solo album idea was originally from the Carpenters' manager, Jerry Weintraub, and a manger's job is to make money for and from those that they manage, not "twiddle their thumbs" as Jerry Weintraub called being idle.  Karen was NOT devastated emotionally or such for not having that album released.  Karen was NOT wishing to pursue a 'solo career'.  There were possible publicity problems with the release of the album (rumors of Karen 'going solo' which were never true, personal stories being told about Karen working on her solo album possibly getting bad press attention, Karen meeting Thomas Burris around this time, many reasons), which Karen knew about, which is why Karen decided to shelve the album.  The album was not actually important to Karen and was NOT "her ticket to freedom" or whatever.  Karen loved and was happy making music with her brother and the Carpenters.  Karen was not looking to be a 'superstar' or 'diva' or whatever the media was wishing Karen to be.  Karen had an emotional tie with the album as it reflected a period in her life, but musically Karen knew the album was very lackluster and not really important to her musical career, however, with songs like "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall" and "He's Out Of My Life" being ripped away from her and all of that while making the album, the album honestly made Karen very proud and content to be working with her honest brother and the Carpenters group.  Karen gained personal experience with the album, but that experience was what helped Karen appreciate what she had with the Carpenters and left Karen not wanting to go out on her own or such.  Karen shelved the album herself willingly as there were just too many possible problems to deal with publicly if the album had been released.  Karen was honestly hoping the album 'flopped' so that people would leave her alone about "going solo".  The real problem was what if the album had been successful despite being lackluster musically.
  That was the idea that Karen had for making the decision to shelve her solo album; Karen did not want to take a chance of the album possibly being successful and people bugging Karen after that to 'go solo' (especially "the press").  Alpert, Moss, and Richard supported Karen in her decision to shelve the album as it was not an easy decision for Karen to make.  If you get a chance, actually read what was written by Phil Ramone and Richard Carpenter in the credits for Karen's solo album and then read what I wrote here.  Karen decided to shelve the album as Karen noticed the media gearing up to try and publicize the solo album release as being something that it was never meant to be.  Karen was NOT wishing to ever leave the Carpenters or her brother.  Also, Karen saw how the media kept trying to push that women should be seen as nothing more than 'sex objects' and Karen was very much against that.  The lyric content on a few songs was definitely cause for concern from Karen as Karen did not want girls or women feeling that they were nothing more than play toys for men.  Most of the media was made of men and trying to push that 'women are just sex objects' stuff.  The media did not like Karen standing up for herself and women in general which was another reason for the 'bad press' that the Carpenters received (without the press publicly stating this of course, but Karen would not conform to the 'women are just sex objects' nonsense by the press and the entertainment industry in general).  Karen shelved the album and others stood behind Karen's decision (Alpert, Moss, Richard, Phil Ramone).  (And a side note here about Karen using the word "cuss" not "curse" and about the only times I remember about Karen saying she used the 'f word' was when Karen was yelling, screaming, hollering and crying at therapists and such when the therapists and such tried to tell Karen that Karen's mom did not care about Karen, so that "pardon me for cursing, but that was a great f***ing album" comment by Phil Ramone after Karen passed away doesn't sound accurate in more ways than one and should have been labeled as such [as a note to fiction writers looking for a story rather than reality].  Thank you so much to Rod Temperton for trying to speak up on Karen's behalf back then in 1983 and shame on certain book authors and others for not questioning this statement by Phil as Phil was well-known for cussing while Karen was not known for cussing if it could be avoided.  Cursive is a type of fluent writing where people don't have to lift their pens or pencils off of the paper or cursing is also an act of wishing ill will on someone else.  Cussing is bad words.  Freaking, shoot, dang, darn and such are one thing as a b*tch is a female dog, while f***ing is another thing entirely and those that have been through it prefer love making in all honesty.  Just a head's up here).  And also, for those that heard, yes, Karen did cry after she “pulled the plug on the can of worms” as she put it.  And Karen told me on June 12, 1981 that the reason why she cried is because she felt that she had let down the other people that had worked hard on her album by not releasing that album.  Any other reason stated for Karen crying about her album not being released is pure fiction.

8. Karen entered Levenkron's clinic in January 1982 weighing around 78 pounds.

9. Karen Carpenter left Steven Levenkron's clinic in September 1982 weighing 77 pounds and had to be hospitalized (arrhythmia [irregular heartbeat] again).

10. After leaving Levenkron's clinic, Karen was hospitalized at Lennox Hill? and her weight increased to 104 pounds around October / November 1982.  A very controversial procedure was used to raise Karen’s weight using sugars and carbohydrates.  Possibly contributory, but not known for sure.  There was about a 4 month or so gap here.  Note #12 below.

11. Unknown to most, but for the last three and a half months while staying with her parents, Karen had made it a rule that she only weighed herself once a week (Friday morning was the day of the week).  Hint, an anorexic worries about their weight and could not go one day let alone one week without weighing themselves.  Karen's and her mother's idea.  This idea appeared to be keeping Karen's weight at a steady level.

12. Karen's heart stopped with Karen weighing 108 pounds on February 4, 1983 at her mother's and father's house in Richard's walk-in closet.  To note, Karen's sugar level was over 1100 which is more than high enough to cause most people's hearts to stop beating.

13. Karen was planning on signing her divorce papers around 9 AM on February 4, 1983.  Karen was planning on flying to New York State and then Karen also had two plane tickets from New York State to Las Vegas Nevada where Karen was planning on eloping with the guy named Adrian mentioned in #5 above.  After the mess with Tom Burris, Karen used a 'new manager' story to cover up that she was planning on getting married again.

14. And to be fair here, after Karen passed away in 1983, as part of the estate settlement, Thomas Burris was asked to sign a paper which legally prohibited him from publicly discussing Karen Carpenter.  Fiction writers wish people to believe that this was done because of 'secrets'.  A non fiction writer (like myself) wants people to understand that chances are if Thomas Burris had not had that restriction placed on him, Thomas Burris would not have been able to lead a life 'out of the media spotlight' otherwise known as 'privacy'.  Imagine if Thomas had met another woman and got married again and then had his vasectomy reversed and had another son later on.  Just a hypothetical scenario as an example here, but imagine the probable media mess of "Karen's widower got married again, had his vasectomy reversed and had another son, and what a scumbag he is..." just to try and sell more papers and make someone else wealthy at Thomas's personal expense.  The media wants people to believe that being popular and being a celebrity is all 'fun and games' but there is a dark side too that many who have 'made it' so to speak, understand.  Princess Lady Diana (Spencer) being a prime example of this 'dark side'.  And in another way, Karen Anne Carpenter being another prime example as well.  I think that Thomas Burris made the right choice in signing that paper which kept his name out of the media spotlight which has allowed Thomas to live a more private life than what may have happened otherwise.  And with all this lengthy gobbledygook here, do you understand why I prefer to write non fiction as opposed to trying to make up stories or scenarios to try and explain stuff with (fiction)?  Fiction always makes a big mess.  As far as non fiction, true, Thomas and Karen had been split up and separated (not around each other) for over a year before Karen passed away so how is Karen’s passing away Tom’s fault (or anyone else’s fault for that matter).  I wasn’t too fond of Tom either as I met him in June 1981, but still fair is fair and truth is honesty (non fiction).

15. As far as any question(s) dealing with having sex between Karen and Richard, Karen had this to say to me after Karen and I were talking about rumors, "...As far as rumors about Richard and I having sex.  Richard and I are brother and sister and we have been through a lot together and we are very close to one another and we love each other very much and very dearly.  We are brother and sister and the thought of possibly bringing in a bunch of inbreds with hillbilly teeth into the world is just not my idea of having a good time..."  If that doesn't answer your question properly, I'm sorry, but it isn't my problem that some people just have these perverted fantasies or fetishes that aren't grounded in reality or maybe they are?  How should I know what everyone else is or isn’t doing that makes them want to ask such a question?  For others, this should answer that question.  As far as a definitive 'yes or no' answer - shame on you for asking such a thing between a brother and a sister.  I have a younger sister myself and I find that kind of question a bit offensive if asked as a yes or no question instead of expecting an honest answer [and honest, all yes or no questions are offensive.  Offensive as in preparing for attack(s)].  In my own defense about my own sister, I agree with what Karen said about possibly bringing inbreds and hillbilly teeth into the world is not having a good time.  I find that answer a bit more useful than a simple yes or no answer, myself.  How about you?  Did you learn something?


Mid October 1973


Note to self, this is an overview page, not an essay contest. 

I have a meeting at a church with the Archdeacon of Canterbury, Bernard Pawley, and his assistant, Sir Nicholas Born?.  An Order of Suppression (gag order) is issued on me.  And no, I am not going to 'sugar coat' this either as my nickname at the time is 'Bubby'.  Yes, I am added to the same list as Charles Manson (Helter Skelter), David Berkowitz (Son of Sam), David Koresh, Reverend Moon, and others I imagine over the years including Adrian Clair Downing III (Bubby) which sounds really notorious doesn't it?  As far as I know, I am the only one that was on that list that never killed anyone or had someone killed.  At age 8 or 9, I am definitely the youngest person added to the list.  I am also the only one on that list that no one has ever heard about except that my name was on the list.  Even further, I'm not sure if such a list still exists anymore and if it does still exist, I may possibly still be on it (but doubtful as the one to renew my entry on that list, Sir Nicholas Born, Passed away in December 2009 and I did have a book published in August 2011 which wouldn't have been possible if my name was still on the 'blocked {gag order}' list).  I was added to the list after an incident in late September 1973 where I asked the question in Sunday School, "We all know Jesus was born on December 25th, but do you know what year?  Surely if we know the month and day, we must know the year."  And the substitute teacher said, "The year zero".  And a huge ruckus ensued within the Church reaching all the way up to Pope Paul VI.  I was placed on the list of individuals blocked from having anything written by themselves or about themselves publicly.  But unlike others on that list, my name and picture were blocked completely, not just "my words" like Manson and Son of Sam and such.  And a side note, with all of the nasty stuff written in the papers about Karen Carpenter, Karen's brother, Richard Carpenter, had been trying to get Karen added to this list since around 1975 without any success. (interesting, September / October 1973)


September 6, 1978


Karen’s first day as a teacher (1978 - 1979, IV)


September 8, 1978


Karen talks about wanting to teach grammar school kids, but teenagers were all they had, so she took it (1978 - 1979, IV)

Karen and me talk about our families and such (1978 - 1979, IV)

Karen and I agree not to touch each other.  Karen and I met on Wednesday September 6, 1978 and Karen and I both agreed to the rule of not physically touching each other after Karen had said something like, "you can give me a hug if you like?  I don't bite." and my saying something like, "I would love to, but you know how some people talk and it probably wouldn't be a good idea with me being jailbait and all that.  Corning is a small area so why give gossipers more to talk about?" (1978 - 1979, IV)


September 1978


Karen and I talk about Ouija boards and horoscopes and our not believing in 'black magic' and such (1978 - 1979, VII)

I told Karen about my quitting chorus the year before (7th grade) (1978 - 1979, XIV)

Karen and I sing together off and on for the next couple months and our first song together was Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys (1978 - 1979, XV)

Karen and I start playing practical jokes on one another, we both started about the same time, I loosened the tops on her salt and pepper shakers and she taped a ‘kick me’ sign on my back (1978 - 1979, XVII)

The diary talk (1978 - 1979, VI)

“Am I the girl of your dreams” talk (1978 - 1979, X)

Hidden but not for long event (1978 - 1979, XII)

Karen freezing up in class after we made eye contact (1978 - 1979, XIII)

Karen is teaching english class and I am in another class.  I get called on in another class to answer a question and Karen is repeating everything I say and do in the other class while teaching.  Another teacher is out in the hallway and hears and sees this too.  The teachers agree not to call on me to answer questions in class if it can be avoided. (1978 - 1979, XIII)

Karen and I start realizing that we can see each other’s thoughts at times.  Karen and I aren’t mind readers or such and it only happens between us that we can see each other’s thoughts (1978 - 1979, XIII)

Karen and I talk about arrhythmia (irregular heartbeat) (1978 - 1979, VII)

Karen and I have our 'futility' talk (1983, VIII)

The night light talk (1978 - 1979, VI)

The ‘you need to add more freckles’ comment (1978 - 1979, XI)

Karen and I talk about her eating disorder, anorexia nervosa, and that the psychology stuff is not going so well (1978 - 1979, LII, LIII)

I sing the song “(They Long To Be) Close To You” to Karen with slightly altered lyrics and afterwards Karen and I have Karen’s “Past lives” talk about her past regressive therapy (1978 - 1979, VII, VIII)

Karen and I talk about Karen sticking her finger down her throat and butter knives and “tomboys and mud pies”, and Max Baer Jr. and I get Karen to laugh as we talk about our ‘goofy’ names (1978 - 1979, XVIII, XIX, XX)


October 1978


School pictures (1983, XII)

Karen’s cousin Patti Carpenter stops by and talks about getting a car (1978 - 1979, XXI)

Dancing lessons (1978 - 1979, XVI)

Brother Richard Carpenter visits (1978 - 1979, XXIII)

Cubby O’Brien visits.  I am still pretty sure this was just before Paul Williams' visit just below (1978 - 1979, XXIV)

Paul Williams visits and later our ‘heart to heart’ talk, no more sexual innuendos.  Our pet names for each other, Karen - Honey, me - Darling.  This was when Karen "spilled the beans" to me about her being Karen Carpenter.  Before this I knew her as my teacher, Wendy, Karen Whatever. (1978 - 1979, XXVI, XXIX)

Karen talks about finding Richard with her hair dresser some time between 1972 and 1975 (1978 - 1979, LIV)

The ‘Wheaties’ talk (1978 - 1979, XXVII)

October 31 - Halloween (1978 - 1979, XXXI)


November 1978


Open house at the school (1978 - 1979, XXV)

My “sowing my wild oats” talk / joke (1978 - 1979, XXV)

Karen and I tried sneaking out the back door and put the neighborhood on 'red alert' with dogs barking and people looking for burglars for about a three to four block radius (1978 - 1979, XXV)

Embarrassing Moments talk (1978 - 1979, XXVIII)

Karen comes in with a tabloid and an article in that tabloid about the ‘hug me’ incident with Karen’s mother (1978 - 1979, LIII)

Thanksgiving and a short break from school (4 day weekend I believe) (1978 - 1979, XXXI)


December 1978


December 4 - Mine (14) and Max Baer Jr.’s (41) Birthdays (1978 - 1979, XXXI)

December 8? – I believe Jerry Weintraub shows up and Karen is asked to do the Bruce Forsyth show by herself.  Karen shows me her wallet with a picture of her brother, Richard, with casts on his arms and leg and talks about the 1973 motorcycle accident and about how brave Richard was and about Richard having the DTs (shakes) from Quaaludes. (1978 - 1979, XXXI)

December 11 to 15 – Karen has her cousin cover classes for the week while Karen does the Bruce Forsyth show.  I believe that Karen said Richard signed up for treatment in Topeka Kansas during this week (1978 - 1979, XXXI)

December 18 to 22 – Karen is teaching until Christmas break at 3 PM on December 22 (1978 - 1979, XXXI)


January 1979


January 3 – Karen and I toast the New Year and break two ‘martini’ type glasses, a week and a half break and we were missing each other a bit during that break (1978 - 1979, XXXI)

After the break is over for Christmas and New Years, Karen and I don't really sing together any more (1978 - 1979, XV, XXXI)

Homecoming dance (honest, no one left home, but someone wanted a catchy name for the dance, so...) and the 12:21 Bible verses sexual innuendo thing after Karen was put on the decorations committee for this dance (1978 - 1979, XXVII)

[End of January (26th?)] Jerry Weintraub shows back up with Karen's new contract that Paul Williams had brought in October 1978 but Karen hadn't signed as I believe the contract had a 'new album' clause in it that Karen was worried about after Richard had said, "I quit" on September 3?, 1978 which was what started the teaching and all that.

[Not sure when either so I will stick it here] Otto and Elfriede Frank stop by and a translator (Gary Yoggi) is there. (1978 - 1979, XXII)

Ev Wallace visits [not sure when though] (1978 - 1979, XXII)

[Not sure when either so I will stick it here] Wayne Newton stops by (1978 - 1979, XXII)

[Not sure when either so I will stick it here] I believe at some time Mr. Eugene Klein (Gene Simmons), a former teacher himself, was at the school.
(1978 - 1979, XXII)


February 1979


Being spoiled talk (1978 - 1979, XXII)

User talk (1978 - 1979, XXII)

February 14 - Valentine's Day.  (1978 - 1979, XXXI)


March 1979


Dionne Warwick and Olivia Newton – John visit around Karen’s birthday (1978 - 1979, XVII)

Karen and I discuss baby names (Karen Anne Carpenter Junior, Junior, Junior, it’s a nice tomboy name, she’ll love it, OK, so she decided on Kristi Lynn for a girl and of course Adrian Clair IV for a boy) (1978 - 1979, VII)

The ‘silly string’ incident and Karen and I call a ‘truce’ on the practical joking as kids were thinking of us as boyfriend and girlfriend (1978 - 1979, XVII)

[Somewhere in here] Mary Martin stops by
(1978 - 1979, XXII)

[Somewhere in here] Eddie Kramer stops by (1978-1979, XLIII)


April 1979


Karen started her solo album I believe just before spring break, but maybe in March.  Phil Ramone starts as producer I believe May 1, 1979 (1978 - 1979, XLIII, XLIV, XLV)

Spring Break and another week apart

I am not sure which, but either just before spring break or Easter break, Karen and I stop by a photo booth in either Woolworth's or Newberry's and we have our pictures taken as Karen wanted something to remember me by over the break and to show others.  Karen used the strip of pictures as a bookmark and kept the negatives in her hollowed out Bible stash [As Karen would say, "I've heard of people breaking into safes and safety deposit boxes, but I have yet to hear of someone breaking into someone's Bible"] (1978 - 1979, XLIV)

Watson Homestead ‘Great Outdoors’ (1978 - 1979, XXX)


May 1979


Somehow, during spring break, I showed up at Phil Ramone’s house in the kitchen while I was still physically in Corning NY.  Karen saw me there, but I wasn’t there and I knew what there looked like without me being there as I described what there and Rod Temperton looked like to Karen, yes, confusing (1978 - 1979, XLIII)

I somehow show up at the recording studio in New York City while still being in Corning NY again, I still don’t know why either, but it was during another week long break again, Easter break possibly (1978 - 1979, XLIII)

Mrs. Woeppel knife incident.  Karen and I are not talking much after this as we are trying to quiet down the 'Rumor Mill' [Max Jr.] (1978 - 1979, XXXIII)

Sir Nicholas Born visits the school to drop off paperwork from an article that was suppressed and to ask if we considered Phil Ramone a friend and if we minded if Sir Nicholas had a little fun with Mr. Phil Ramone - Ultimate Injunction or whatever it's called.  After Karen saw Itchie's article, permission granted with sugar on top (1978 - 1979, XLVII)

I believe it was the Monday after Sir Nicholas visited the week before that Karen ended up in the local hospital. (1978 - 1979, XXXI)

Max Baer Jr. loses it, and I remodel the school a little.  About two weeks after Karen and I had not been talking much (1978 - 1979, XXXVI, you may want to skip this section)

Miracle worker, principal John Heib steps in and assigns Karen a monitor as a safety precaution after the Mad Max and even Madder Ace incident (1978 - 1979,, XXXVII)

Karen and I call Rod Temperton on the school phone (the Off the Wall call).  Karen and I learn about 'soul mates' from Rod Temperton (1978 - 1979, XXXVIII)

Woolworth’s life savers, the second Rod Temperton call (1978 - 1979, XLIV)

Max Baer, boxer and Max Jr.'s father, visits - well, actually I believe it was Buddy Baer who had alzheimer's (1978 - 1979, XXXIX)

Richard Carpenter visits again.  And no, Karen did not actually break the TV and get grounded for a month.  Karen and Richard made that story up on the spot (1978 - 1979, XLIV)

Buddy Ebsen visits (1978 - 1979, XLVII)

Karen’s “calm down” talk (1978 - 1979, XL)

I love you more stuff starts between Karen and I (1978 - 1979, XXXIX)

Steve Martin talk (1978 – 1979, XXII)


June 1979


Marcel Marceau visits (1978 - 1979, XXXIV)

Karen and I see the 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas (June 1979, Dalai Lama)

Phil Ramone and Karen ‘Itchie’ and Itchie’s dog visit the school (1978 - 1979, XLVI)

Karen becomes her own substitute teacher and starts wearing a blonde wig with a braided pony tail in the back, kids start referring to her as ‘the air head’ and ‘the blonde bimbo’ as she was nothing like Miss Bihuniak, her former self or whatever (1978 - 1979, XXXIX)

Karen and I pick out an engagement ring and wedding band set at a local jewelry store (1978 - 1979, L)

Karen and I attend either an anniversary party for Karen's Great Uncle Jack Carpenter (dad's side) or Karen's Great Grandmother (Susan [Seal] Carpenter)'s birthday party, maybe both?.  Karen introduced me at the party as her husbandEither way, Susan had always hoped Karen would get married and be happy before Susan passed away.  Susan was also blind and over a hundred years old. (1978 - 1979, LI)

June 22 - Last day of school, Karen's last day as a teacher (1978 - 1979, XXXV)


February 23, 1980

My family moves from 265 East Third Street to 8 Garden Street.  Karen sends a limosine on I believe August 31, 1980 to pick me up and take me to the airport to fly out to California for Karen's wedding to Tom Burris.  We moved.  Limo went to 265 East Third Street house and the guy that lived there was not about to tell the limo driver where we moved to.


June 12, 1981


Karen and I reunited after about 2 years apart.  Yes, we had a long talk (1981, I)

Karen and my first real physical contact and first kiss (1981, I)


June 15, 1981


Karen had her 'visitor' (menstrual cycle) (1981, IX)

I quit smoking around 9:30 AM (1981, VI)

Karen and I started falling asleep together under the trophy case in the main lobby at the high school (1981, IX)

Karen and I started doing “The Couples Show” (1981, XI)

Karen and I talk about the ‘cop killers’ and such (1981, VIII)

Karen and I started the ‘couples hangout’ at Corning East High (1981, IX)


June 16, 1981


Karen ‘hiding out’ (1981, IV)

Made In America talk (1981, II, VII)

The Aftermax recollection (1981, V)

The others woke me up as I was snoring and they didn't want me to wake Honey (Karen) up around 12:30 PMish (1981, IX?)

Karen questioning me about talking to Renee Araujo (1981, IX)

Karen crying (happy tears, tears of joy) (1981, IX)

The ‘take your hands off her’ incident (1981, IX)


June 17, 1981


Karen crying unexpectedly after I came out of my morning exam and Karen had been talking with the other couples during the exam and had just started crying without anyone knowing why Karen just started crying.  Karen's thoughts actually said that Karen had realized that this was going to be our next to the last day together and Karen was not wanting it to end so soon on the next day, Thursday the 18th.  I told others that it was because Karen was having a rough period and was tired and missed me during the exam (1981, III)

Karen and I fall asleep about 12:30 PM and I think it was about 8 PM when the secretary, Lois, woke us up.  We slept (1981, IX)


June 18, 1981


Karen does not have her 'visitor' (menstrual cycle) (1981, X)

Tom Burris shows up at the school in the morning after being suspicious about Karen getting back so late the night before.  Karen leaves the school with Tom and then Karen comes back to the school by herself after Tom dropped Karen off after Karen threatened to tell Tom's son about the upcoming divorce and the reasons behind that divorce (1981, X)

Karen and I sneak off to the auditorium (shh, you aren’t supposed to know about this.  Karen was still married to Tom and because Tom accused Karen, Karen didn’t want to be accused of something if it wasn't true, double shh) (XXX, not in there, shhh, well kind of mentioned 1983, III)

The last time Karen and I did “The Couples Show” (1981, XI)

Because of the divorce, Karen and I agree not to contact each other until after Karen gets her divorce so that Tom doesn't have a chance to accuse Karen of anything before her divorce (1981, X)

Tom Burris shows back up at the school later (around 3 PM?) (1981, X)


June 19, 1981 (most likely June 20 for Patti's graduation eceremonies)


Last half day of school (June 19) (1981, XII)

1981 Corning East High Graduation ceremonies (19th or 20th) (1981, XII)

A newspaper reporter (not sure if a reporter for the Star Gazette [Elmira] or The Leader [Corning] but he was with the API) at the Corning East High graduation ceremonies confirms that my name and my image (as well as Charles Manson) are still on the 'blocked' list (1981, XII)


February 3, 1983


Karen’s phone call to me around 9 PMish Eastern US Time or 6 PMish Pacific Time (1983, III)


February 4, 1983


Lois, the secretary, calls me into the office to see the newscast about Karen around 12:30 PM (1983, IV)

Richard Carpenter shows up at Corning East High School (2:30 to 3 PM?) (1983, IV)


February 7, 1983


I have a vision and lose my memories of Karen that night around 7 or 8 PM Eastern US Time I believe (1983, X)


May 28, 2019


My memories of Karen start returning again, but a slow process of over 6 months of remembering bits and pieces over 40 years ago (1978 - 1979, I)


Interview Video

And a note for those interested.  I figured many are wondering what I look like and sound like now.  I did a 'short' (about an hour long and 667 MB file size) video as an extra as some stuff really can't be written about too well.  And short as in with all that can be talked about in an interview and such, this is not even the tip of the iceberg and is nearly an hour long.  You will also notice the problem with an interview and such as there are a lot of lengthy and involved discussions and by writing it out it is definitely a lot more accurate than a video could ever be.  Yes, videos can be edited but written words are much easier to work with and edit than videos.

And a further note to those that may be wondering.  The original lyric sheet to "Rock with You" was on a sheet of wide ruled notebook paper that had been laminated in case Rod Temperton spilled his coffee again.  I am nearly positive that the original first word to the song was Darling, but could have been Baby or Boy.  The first word was changed to 'Girl' for Michael Jackson.   Also I believe that the first time around was "Share that beat of love" and the second time around was possibly to be "Snare shot that beat of love" but things happen.  I remember I commented to Karen that I would have came up with "relax unwind" instead of "relax your mind", but Rod was the genius with words.


And oops, during the video I am looking off to the side because there is a 32" television monitor opposed to the 15" computer monitor which is where the video camera is, by the 15" monitor. 

And double oops, you will see me at the beginning getting upset and hopefully people understand that that needs to be there.  The reasons why most people 'hide' stuff is because others like to make a truth appear bad to gain more publicity, when the full truth is not bad at all.  A story.  Case in point, I am 13 then 14 years old.  Karen is 28 then 29 years old.  We don't physically touch however, with the age difference, others have tried to falsely accuse me of trying to make Karen look like a pedophile.  REALLY??!!!  And then the full story of yes, Karen and I were very attracted to each other and not as just friends, but we agree to wait because of the age problem.  Others (idiots really) still try to change the truth around to create a story that is actually untrue to falsely accuse others.  Garbage.  And the ones that constantly do this stuff are just as trashy as the garbage they try to pass off of half truths and lies.  Oh wait, the ones that do this stuff to others and twist things around always try to make people believe it is someone else doing this 'trash talk' and not them.  It is them and hopefully a good smack across their heads might get them to wake up and stop this nonsense.  Sometimes, you just can’t be nice anymore because they take advantage of you when you are nice.  If they want to keep being mean, I can be mean too, just watch.  Although, actually, I did mess up which is why I try to stress to people, "Don't do things when you're angry" as in this video I first say, "Because you're idiots" when I meant to say, "Because of idiots".  And yes, I try to follow my own advice but things happen at times.  You don't learn from mistakes if you try to cover them up either.  But if something in the video self interview contradicts something written, the written stuff is accurate.  Then towards the end, I am sounding like I did in 1978 and 1979 as far as being with Karen.  In 1978 and 1979, Karen and I were normally thinking about now and the present.  The world in our eyes so to speak.  Having some fun, the gusto.  In 1981, we actually did finally make contact, we had gone from 'the world', now (lovers), to 'the universe', forever (lovers and companions).  Instead of hot passion (now) like we had in 1978 and 1979, Karen and I were very caressing, affectionate, and loving towards each other (forever) in 1981.  Unfortunately, you don't really see 'forever' in the video and I cut it short on purpose because we all know how people like to talk so why not leave people hanging with something to talk about?  So, anyway, the link is...
karenview.wmv .

And just in case as this was very long and is just an overview, but the details page is here karencarp.html .